pack 9

[Pierre]

I do not fix the driver's belts on the roll bar but as for the passenger on the transom

a real

what is proposed

 

what I have done

 

[Pierre]

and watch:
it is really not hestetic: the fastening loops are mounted upside down !!!!

[Cygnus Projects]

I would expect the model is modelled based upon the 3d scan they made of the original car and are accurate on that front. Of course there is always room for improvement but I would expect only on detailing. 

[Pierre]

3 hours ago, Cygnus Projects said:

I would expect the model is modelled based upon the 3d scan they made of the original car and are accurate on that front. Of course there is always room for improvement but I would expect only on detailing. 

at the moment there are many loopholes, errors and approximations. But in France we know the clear difference in the quality of the reproduction of the details between the manufacturer Eligor of the Cobra and the achievements of Ixo who often modify details when the manufacturers that we are unite and make complaints.
I'm still waiting for answers about the missing starter motor, poorly designed engine mounts, and the fuel line to the carburetor.
Questions asked several times to customer service, to Sam and on the live chat since the delivery of pack 3.

[Dima$]

7 часов назад, сказал Пьер:

и смотрите:
это действительно не так: крепежные петли крепятся вверх ногами !!!!

Господа, не паникуйте! Судя по фото, спорные места будут закрыты кузовными панелями))

[Pierre]

not if the belts are fixed on the roll bar as indicated in the assembly

[mr_frog]

I've scoured the interweb and NOWHERE can I find a picture of a Cobra with the drivers side seatbelts mounted in the way according to Agora's instructions.

Even the picture at the beginning of the instructions has them mounted 'conventionally'.

What Agora has produced is a rather 'Heath-Robinson' effort which does the simple lines of the Cobra no favours WHATSOEVER.

It does not seem in-keeping with a company trying to produce a realistic detailed replica (morelike a mistake which is being 'fixed' as cheaply as possible).

I, for one, will not be fitting this hideous eyesore onto my model.

I eagerly await Agora's take on this matter.

Edited June 21, 2021 by mr_frog
spelling

[airb]

Normally no shoulder harness is used in a 1965 car, either none or only the lap belt. I don't know where the manufacturer of the model got his information, at least not from a 1965 427cu.
Perhaps from one of the numerous Cobra clones on the market or from a new one, available back through Shelby.
The straps aren't pretty either, the buckles are too wide and certainly don't approach a real shoulder harness.

[Joep]

I did come across this picture of a 65 cobra, it does show the seat harness attached to the roll bar

[Joep]

Here is another picture, but It maybe a replica 

[Pierre]

do you know the 7 errors game?

the sun visors are also missing !

and the fans on the radiator are missing

[admin]

The reality is that very few cobras are alike. For ours, we modelled it on a specific original at Shelby. Every part of the design goes to Shelby in Las Vegas for approval, and every model component once ready for production also goes to Shelby for individual sign-off, so we are confident that our model is an accurate replica of a 1965 S/C.

[Pierre]

19 hours ago, admin said:

The reality is that very few cobras are alike. For ours, we modelled it on a specific original at Shelby. Every part of the design goes to Shelby in Las Vegas for approval, and every model component once ready for production also goes to Shelby for individual sign-off, so we are confident that our model is an accurate replica of a 1965 S/C.

I understand your answer
but the reality of a real Cobra requires the existence: of a starter motor, fuel supply hose for the carburettors, engine mounts as original, a steering rack that does not swing without support!
I have already asked these questions to you: there is a contradiction between reality and the copy made: how could the Shelby association you are talking about let these errors pass !!!
why don't you illustrate the montage with photos of the real one so that we can see the quality of the reproduction !!

[airb]

1 hour ago, Pierre said:

I understand your answer
but the reality of a real Cobra requires the existence: of a starter motor, fuel supply hose for the carburettors, engine mounts as original, a steering rack that does not swing without support!
I have already asked these questions to you: there is a contradiction between reality and the copy made: how could the Shelby association you are talking about let these errors pass !!!
why don't you illustrate the montage with photos of the real one so that we can see the quality of the reproduction !!

I would like to join this commentary on the listed errors. The biggest mistake for me is that the engine is totally wrong.
There is not a single V8 engine where the crankshafts are in the same line, they are always staggered in relation to each other, this in connection with the crankshaft.
I solved this by shifting the two halves of the engine block relative to each other, and keeping the crankcase as a size and making the timing chain housing (which is way too thick) narrower. The space that arises can be filled with plastic sheet.
Then the view is better anyway. Also the shape of the bell housing of the transmission is also totally wrong.
But maybe I'm too much of a purist and Cobra enthusiast, and still want to build a more or less correct model. Of course there are many details that disappear from view when the model is mounted. But for your own peace of mind, this work is justified, that's why i make also new seats for the model.

For sure it is not a authentic replica of the real stuff. But if you are a bit of modelbuilder it is a good base to start build a Cobra with some work. But that is my opinion !!!!!

[Detailliebhaber 1 8]

I am also of the opinion that some details could have been designed more precisely, especially with the price of the Cobra it would be appropriate.

As already mentioned, a few details could have been added to the engine. Anyway, I hope that doesn't happen with the new Jaguar. Here too, many inconsistencies were found before the first delivery. It remains to be seen whether these have been fixed.

Fritz   (Germany)

[Dima$]

If you have so many complaints about the model and its publisher, maybe you should refuse to create it? I am a perfectionist myself, but I understand that Agora is asking for real money for its kit, if you need better detailing, contact Amalgam, it has accurate models, only the price starts from $ 10,000. you choose)

[Papa]

On 6/21/2021 at 4:01 AM, mr_frog said:

I've scoured the interweb and NOWHERE can I find a picture of a Cobra with the drivers side seatbelts mounted in the way according to Agora's instructions.

Even the picture at the beginning of the instructions has them mounted 'conventionally'.

What Agora has produced is a rather 'Heath-Robinson' effort which does the simple lines of the Cobra no favours WHATSOEVER.

It does not seem in-keeping with a company trying to produce a realistic detailed replica (morelike a mistake which is being 'fixed' as cheaply as possible).

I, for one, will not be fitting this hideous eyesore onto my model.

I eagerly await Agora's take on this matter.

It's actually pretty common to mount the harness to the roll bar since it puts the attachment points above the shoulders instead of below them, which can cause injuries.

[Papa]

[Danny Wing]

I too was disappointed with the inaccurate engine. However, this is a model that is expensive but in the price range of current 1/8 models that are not really any better. It is not a museum quality example but it also does not cost $10,000. The picture of the Cobra at Volo is absolutely a replica. Aside from the engine detail there is a lot of room for this model to vary considering how real replica owners accept non original variances. 

[Papa]

Here are the belts in my full scale car for reference.

[ThomasJW]

My two cents on this. It seems to me the roll bar mounted harness is a modern alteration/hack after-thought to the original design which had the mounting points on the rear bulkhead... or did it? How recent are shoulder harnesses anyway? In any event, It baffles me why you would want to mount something so integral on a chromed part and destroy its esthetic.

Edited February 22, 2022 by ThomasJW
clarification

[Papa]

There were only 31 "original" Shelby Cobra 427 S/C cars produced.  The originals are the cars carrying the CSX-3xxx serial numbers. There were an additional 19 full competition cars produced and 260 street cars.  The street versions had either a 427 or 428 engine, no roll bar, no side pipes, and were intended to be the production Cobra.  What most people don't realize is that Shelby American still produces Cobras today as what are known as "continuation" series cars.  They are also CSX serial numbered cars, but in the 6000 series.  They also produced a run of CSX-1xxx cars a few decades ago.  Other CSX cars are produced by Superformance, which is a licensed manufacturer in South Africa that produces CSX-4xxx, CSX-7xxx, and CSX-8xxx serial numbered cars.  Our beloved model is likely based on the current CSX-6xxx series from Shelby American.  The CSX-6xxx cars are made-to-order and some are made with the roll bar harness mounts.  Again, no two Cobras are exactly alike, and the vast majority are replicas of the original 31 cars produced.

427 Cobra (CSX6000) (shelby.com)

1965 Shelby Cobra 427 Roadster: History, Specifications, & Performance (supercars.net)

If Carroll himself was okay with it, we should be, too.

[Papa]

22 hours ago, ThomasJW said:

My two cents on this. It seems to me the roll bar mounted harness is a modern alteration/hack after-thought to the original design which had the mounting points on the rear bulkhead... or did it? How recent are shoulder harnesses anyway? In any event, It baffles me why you would want to mount something so integral on a chromed part and destroy its esthetic.

To address your question about rear bulkhead mounting, The bulkhead is a sheet of aluminum, which isn't strong enough for attaching safety belts to.  I've seen at least one "original" Cobra (CSX-3010) where the belts attached to a cross bar on the roll bar that is positioned lower (below the body).  Most modern replicas run the belts to frame-mounted tabs.  The shoulder belts pass through the bulkhead, over a support bar and then to a chassis mounted attachment point.  The lap belts attach to similar tabs on either side of the seat, and for 5-point harnesses, there is a mount point through a steel plate on the floor under the seat.

I would imagine most of the original S/C cars were configured with lap belts only as racing harnesses are not great for street-driven cars and safety was not as much of a focus when the originals were built.

The attached picture shows my passenger shoulder belt attachments as viewed from inside the trunk.  You can see where they come through the bulkhead, over a frame bar, and down to the chassis-mounted tabs.  The second picture gives you a great view of the setup without the body in the way.

 

[ThomasJW]

Hey Papa,

Thanks for the clarification. Fantastic replicar btw. I agree with your opinion that the originals probably had seatbelts only. Fact of the matter, few of us lived in that era so few can say with certainty it has to be this way or that way. Your photo of Carroll not-withstanding, It's my opinion that any 427 that has shoulder harnesses is not an original vehicle or if it is original, it was brought up to modern safety standards to be able to be driven on the street today.

I believe that the model, as presented, employs an accurate albeit rare, after-market solution to a modern-day requirement. In hindsight, it may have been an idea for Agora to include a couple of options for the builder to decide which version they'd like to display.

I've used more than my two cents and I'm not going to die on this hill so that's all I have to say on that. ☮️✌️

 

[Papa]

Thanks, and I'll let it go as well.  Have a great day.